August 19, 2001
(Brent) OK, it's the top of the hour.... I now call the meeting to order.
(Brent) Item one. questions or comments regarding the minutes of the last meeting?
(Jurian) None here
(Shaul) Not here
(Barry) None here
(Gerard) None here
(Roger) Its cool
(Nancy) None from Nancy or Shirley.
(Brent) Then the minutes are ratified as correct.
(Brent) Item 2, Nancy's report on Fiscal year 2000.
(Nancy) I talked to Wegner LLP and the books WERE closed at end of 2000.
(Nancy) I guess the transaction list can go back, for information, etc., and that was confusing.
(Brent) Very good, no problems or outstanding items then.
(Nancy) Those books/transations can still be printed/read.
(Nancy) But this was confirmed that they WERE closed end of 2000.
(Nancy) End of report.
(Brent) Great, 2000 is a done deal.
(Brent) Item 3 Booklet - Nancy's Bibliography. Comments?
(Mary) I like it!
(Nancy) I actually like the new format much better.
(Shaul) I think it's good to have a bibliography at the back of the book, and some people have actually already asked me why there isn't one, so it's a great idea.
(Jurian) Looks like we all like it then, good :)
(Barry) I agree. Need to leave folks with other books to turn to for more info
(Brent) Me too, the new format is much cleaner, more professional.
(Brent) Nice job, Nancy! :-)
(Roger) It's an excellent addition to the book.
(Nancy) Also, in researching to give ISBN and the like, found we were suggesting many books now out of print!
(Nancy) And, I think the flow on content moves better, no interruptions, this way.
(Nancy) Also, books often apply to more than one subject. And we can change the book list or TT web site reference page more easily.
(Brent) Yes, it was a good chance to review the book list, and weed out the out of print.
(Nancy) I was actually me, not Shirley, who did that at the end of each topic, listing books and topics, and I'm glad someone called me on it as it was a clutter, etc.
(Brent) Welcome Jan, we are on item 3 - Bibliography
(Jan) Hi all - sorry I'm late. (Had to set up a new ISP & connection from a new laptop at my post-PS site)
(Barry) Cool, welcome Jan
(Nancy) So I've done the booklet book list from the TT book list plus other books at times mentioned in the TOPICS.
(Nancy) So if this is NOT the best list, other additions, etc., let me/Mary/Shirley know, etc.
(Brent) Yes, at least we now know that the book list is current! It needed reorganizing.
(Nancy) Jan, Wegner reports books WERE closed end of 2000, and everyone likes you suggested booklet format.
(Roger) Should we perhaps, still reference out of print books? Though not all will have access, those books are out there, in libraries, etc.
(Jan) I've checked the new booklet format, and think it is very good. If the reference list is updated, the text part will not change
(Roger) We could make a small annotation about out of print status and certain books.
(Nancy) Roger, this is true, but we are directing folks to go GET THEIR OWN, etc., and this will be a continual point of confusion.
(Brent) Welcome, Toni...we are in the middle of item 3 - Bibliography.
(Nancy) There are many good books, we're just trying to give then a start, etc.
(Gerard) Yes, but not always easy to find and if one needs a book for a longer time then a library is not a good option
(Toni) Thank you
(Nancy) Roger, we're trying to keep the page count down, etc. I'll tell you what I said to Shirley, endlessly. It should be CHOPPED OUT.
(Nancy) My vote would be to NOT include OOP books.
(Jan) Roger, I think out-of-print books should be referenced with a comment about their status. (Amazon & others may occationally be able to get hold of such books)
(Jurian) I'd have to agree with nancy on that, no point including books no one can get
(Roger) But in the interest of reducing pagination, those books could/should be removed from the list
(Gerard) I agree on that too.
(Barry) If there was room, they could be included as a seperate list?
(Brent) Maybe this can be done on the website, and not in the booklet, as Nancy says we are trying to keep the page count down.
(Nancy) Roger, if they have access to a library after the shift, then ALL the books there will be gone over, etc.
(Barry) OK, better idea
(Roger) That was the scenario I was thinking of, in additional to pre-PS research.
(Nancy) Jan, this is telling folks desperate to dig about and wait. Better to point them to an alternate that is just as good, that they can buy, etc.
(Nancy) My thoughts.
(Nancy) Barry, I had to hurt Shirley's feeling endlessly on keeping it short. MUCH good content got eliminated for the sake of brevity.
(Jan) I think the book list should be balanced. If an important book could be obtained second hand, it should be listed. If other just as good alternatives exist, or the book is impossible to get any more, drop it.
(Nancy) We're not producing a 1,000 page mass! They should buy books, start doing their own research, etc.
(Brent) Good point, give them something solid up front to purchase, then search for out of print books later, if they want.
(Barry) Nancy, understand. Our purpose is to get somthing in the hands of the masses
(Shaul) The real question is, how much more costly for us it will be to include the out-of-print books
(Brent) And teh list of current print books is a good one to get the masses started!
(Roger) Well, there is potentially a great many OOP books that could be on our list.
(Nancy) Well, the books are listed on the web site, etc.
(Shaul) It's true that some people already have access to sizable collections of used books
(Jan) As an example: Both books by Velikovsky have been out of print for a long time, but are important refences and may be obtained second hand. (I got them through Amazon.com)
(Roger) Must folks will just get the ones they can easily acquire. OOP books will be for the more resourceful folks.
(Nancy) Jan, I made sure for every one dropped, that another just as good was included, yes. Spend a day or two at this, with Amazon and the TT web site, etc.
(Brent) We could add a note at the end of the bibliography that many OOP books are listed on the website.
(Jurian) We could list OOP books on the tt site, and just include the URL in the booklet..
(Roger) The website list, if all-inclusive, should be sufficient, with the updated/easily available list in the booklet.
(Jurian) And then keep the list on the website up to date, I can write a script to make that easy for us..
(Brent) You read my mind, Jurian
(Nancy) Folks, if we list OOP books, then right off guess who gets the questions as to where to GET the books. The 800 number.
(Nancy) Plus, we've had desperate folks, last minute prep, digging about for something they can't get!
(Jurian) We would of course need to include a notice saying we can't help with locating the books
(Nancy) How is this HELPING them for Pete's sake!
(Brent) Yeah, thats true
(Nancy) The OOP books are OOP because alternatives emerged, just as good!!!!!
(Roger) Anyone that wants or needs more information will discover the OOP books on their own when conducting an indepth literature search of their own.
(Jurian) OK, fair enough, that eliminates about every reason to include OOP books..
(Brent) Good point Roger
(Nancy) Jan, Velikovsky came back INTO print because he WAS considered relevant, and unique!
(Brent) So, are we ready to move on?
(Nancy) But I think the issue should be, we should NOT be sending folks on a goose chase, when we're telling to do barebones stuff to survive!
(Roger) I think it's reasonable to not include them, even on the website, unless a particular goto source has not been "replaced" by a newer, available source.
(Nancy) It's contradictory. Makes us look silly and irrelevant!
(Shaul) The website can include a general disclaimer that some books are out of print. Many people may have access to them regardless, as I say.
(Brent) So, unless it is an extremely important one of a kind book, that we can direct people too, the OOP's are out, yes?
(Jurian) Yeah, but they're OOP for a reason, unless there's no alternative, no reason to include them on the list
(Jan) Brent, agreed!
(Nancy) Jurian, I got a call from someone on the 800, looking for a book from the TT list they had problems with. It will NOT stop folks, and wastes their time!
(Jurian) Nancy: exactly why I now said not to include them :)
(Jurian) Unless there's no alternative, and then there should be a very clear notice NOT to call the 800 about it
(Brent) OK, moving right along.... Mary you wanted to share data on shipping costs and area expenses?
(Mary) I have $126.52 in house for mailing costs. I have mailed a total of 4 books out (one to indonesia at a cost of $4.55 US) and the others in the US ($1.49 US), 2 in the last week! I have also purchased smaller, white binders that allowed me to place the book into a 6X9 envelope and it looks nicer.
(Jan) If an important OOP book is listed, there should be a footnote about it. As an example, Worlds in Collision was reprinted July 2000 is seems, is again OOP, but can be purchased used online
(Mary) I will be revamping the book with Nancy's newest revision.
(Brent) Very good, Mary. Quite a difference in overseas costs, Eh?
(Toni) Mary, Are you shipping "Media Rate"?
(Mary) Media Rate?
(Nancy) I ship my books and videos, etc. media rate, which is the old Book Rate.
(Mary) No, just regular mail.
(Roger) Isn't that class 3 or something?
(Toni) It is usually less expensive.
(Nancy) About half the price of otherwise.
(Mary) I take it to the post office and ask for prices and send it the most reasonable way.
(Nancy) Book rate goes via the same route, plane or whatever, but has always been cheaper.
(Nancy) We should do this, for sure! Good point, Toni, I hadn't thought of this.
(Roger) Does the PO know that it's a booklet?
(Mary) Can I send it book rate?
(Nancy) Mary, sometimes the PO asks if this is media rate if they suspect, but most often don't ask.
(Toni) It's the same, media=book
(Shaul) Yeah, it also works for international rates, it's called "printed matter"
(Nancy) Mary sent me some pages printed directly from the PDF and they look BETTER than the booklets you guys got.
(Brent) I gather you will look int this Mary.
(Mary) I live in a VERY small town, where my postmaster is VERY snoopy. I will try it next time and find out what happens!
(Nancy) The type is slightly smaller, stays in the margins better, and is more crisp, I think.
(Toni) Should be about $1.10
(Mary) WOW, I will difinately look into it, thanks Toni.
(Toni) Good luck
(Nancy) Yes, I ship book and video for $1.64 sometimes!
(Roger) Just tell your postmaster that it's a book and you want the media rate. It may be the same cost if your town is sufficiently small. (Small-town Postmasters usually take better care of their customers!)
(Nancy) If I want to got in 3 days, not potentially 5-7, then I pay $3.50 or so.
(Brent) This will save us a bunch of money in the long run.
(Nancy) I think book rate may be slightly slower, but not by much.
(Mary) I will talk to him about this and will discuss it at next months meeting.
(Nancy) Mary, were you able to get the even page numbers with the new tweak to move them into the middle, slightly?
(Brent) Slower is OK, after all, the booklet is free to the recepient.
(Nancy) Note, Mary mentioned a problem printing from the PDF. Even page numbers came out, odd did not.
(Brent) That's a strange glitch...
(Nancy) Mary, show your postmaster the book :-)
(Mary) Nancy...I can't get through to you via zetatalk website. I would like you to send me the new masters like we did before, it looks better.
(Mary) Yea nancy, he's a religious guy and preaches all the time!
(Mary) Website./..meant e-mail.
(Nancy) Mary, I will reprint and send :-)
(Mary) Thanks lady!
(Mary) End of report.
(Brent) It seems that most of the requests for booklet have come to me through the Inc. email link to me. Do we have a reference to the booklet on the site that I have missed?
(Mary) Nancy gets requests via the 800 number.
(Brent) What about a blurb on the site advertising the booklet?
(Mary) I wanted to ask, where is the book listed on TT?
(Nancy) Brent, page 00014006.htm!
(Brent) Thanks Nancy...I figured I missed it.
(Nancy) It's in Operations. We have 1. radio team, 2. Geson's TV clip video, and 3. the booklet now.
(Nancy) These are offering to the public. Maybe the term "Operations" in the menu at left is not clear?
(Nancy) It says to write to the 249 PO box, I believe, and this is not happening.
(Brent) Yes, "operations" is probably missleading....
(Mary) Again, is it on the TT-Inc. site?
(Nancy) Maybe I should check that page, and be sure I know what I'm talking about.
(Nancy) Oh! I know the booklet page give links to the PDF's, for sure!
(Nancy) TT-Inc home page, on left is Operations as menu item (like Meetings, Home, Articles, etc.)
(Mary) Shouldn't it be linked to the tt hub site?
(Jan) Nancy, I just tried "http://www.zetatalk.com/00014006.htm" and got a 404 (not found).
(Nancy) I will check that Ops page. Should we be directing folks to the 249 PO box? Better to have this go to Mary's PO Box? Or do you enjoy the e-mail, Brent :-). Just asking ...
(Toni) The page is there
(Nancy) Mary, the booklet page give links to the Booklet, online.
(Nancy) Also, I think folks get to the nonprofit FROM the TT site, not visa versa.
(Jan) OK (didn't include the /nonproft/).
(Brent) I'm OK with it Nancy, mabe when we get a major increase in requests, we could add Mary's addy to the page.
(Nancy) Jan /nonproft/00014006.htm
(Brent) If Mary doesn't mind.......:-)
(Mary) No, it's ok with me.
(Nancy) Just asking, unless someone already knows, does the page say 249 PO box? If not, I'll add that.
(Brent) Yes it does, Nancy.... I'm at that page now....
(Nancy) OK, then they're e-mailing you because they are hungry for contact! They want a RESPONSE, not just a booklet, my hunch.
(Mary) I don't really want my name out there though.
(Nancy) Like that guy that called the 800 number because he was hungry to talk ...
(Nancy) Mary, no problem at all :-)
(Mary) thanks (-:
(Nancy) Having a Baraboo PO helps, as I've already got folks announcing they are coming to Baraboo to meet with me. Not invited, just coming anyway, etc.
(Mary) Yea. I use the Baraboo PO for the return mail address.
(Brent) OK, Mary...no addy. Nancy, all so far have just been simple requests with a snail mail address. The contact/reaching out email comes from the other link to me from the INC.
(Nancy) Had a guy from England who came and walked around town, anyway, as I said I don't met with folks who invite themselves. Nice guy, though.
(Mary) BRENT! get this group back on track!!!
(Jan) Since we're wandering into OTs: I've got a question concerning the booklet
(Jan) Originally, I think the booklet on the web had the high-resolution color pictures. Now even the web-version is printer-friendly b&w.
(Barry) Didn't know that
(Brent) good idea, Nancy....OK, moving right along.
(Jan) Would it be too much work to maintain two versions, one downloadable with color h-r plus the printer version?
(Shaul) That may not be a bad idea. Color would certainly add a lot to the web version, if this is possible.
(Nancy) Jan, yes, I made gray scale of all.
(Nancy) Jan, but at first, this might not have been the case. I went through and did gray scale to all, etc.
(Nancy) Jan, yes, 2 versions it too much work!
(Brent) Item 4 Shirley would you briefly discuss your shortwave progress or obsticals with putting up the antenna?
(Shaul) If too much work, then no.
(Nancy) Color added to pics of herbs and the like, which we're not including. What we have does just as well in B&W or was that to begin with.
(Jan) OK - I was just asking... :-)
(Nancy) Shirley says "We have no purchased the antenna. I is not the original one that we first picked out, nor it is our second choice mentioned in the updates for tt-in that I wrote."
(Brent) We'll give Shirley a minute to respond to item 4, and Nancy to type it out..... :-)
(Jan) But please check the pics in b&w again. It looks like Olli's car is very low-resolution, maybe the grey-scale also reduced the resolution?
(Nancy) Shirley says "We basically put ourselves in the hands of the radio show people. We had a knowledgeable person with us when purchasing."
(Nancy) Shirley says "Our basic problem is that being in a rental facility we could not buy an antenna that requires radios."
(Nancy) Shirley says "The one that we got is more expensive than the ones that we origianlly chose. However, this could not be helped."
(Nancy) Shirley says "Installation will take place either this week or next week".
(Jan) Nancy, I believe Shirley said "that requires radials."
(Nancy) Nancy wants to know how much more expensvive.
(Nancy) Shirley says "We have $10 left of the nonprofit money after buying the cable and connectors and antenna, but this will be spent on things like fence clips and misc.".
(Nancy) radios = radials! (Nancy's error)
(Nancy) Shirley says "We may go slightly over the nonprofit allocation, but if we do, it will be a matter of $5-6 only, and I'm sure my budget can stand that."
(Jan) Is the antenna mounted yet?
(Brent) So, Shirley, you have enough money to set up?
(Nancy) Shirley says "Jan, this week or next week our helper is going to set it up for us". (more)
(Nancy) Shirley says "He has taken it home to tune it properly."
(Nancy) Shirley says "I made sure it's got the 20 meter band so I can get to Jan :-)".
(Jan) Very good!
(Brent) That will be a great test!
(Shaul) Yes, it'll be great when we have at least two of our members communicating that way
(Brent) and half way around the world to boot!
(Brent) Shirley, that was a very good report....are you finished?
(Nancy) Shirley says "I want to add a bit about packets"
(Nancy) Shirley says "Right now, I know nothing about packet radio. However, on the 1st Tuesday in Sept I'm going to a meeting of our local Ham radio club."
(Nancy) Shirley says "they have said, on their web site, that they are experimenting with packets."
(Nancy) Shirley says "So I intend to learn from them, and from experts at the Canadian National Institutes for the Blind"
(Nancy) Shirley says "And I intend to do it quickly!" (more)
(Nancy) Shirley says "The important thing, though, is to get up and running first before I take on any more of the project".
(Nancy) End of report!
(Brent) Excellent progress...we look forward to hearing future developments. Especially about the first time you reach Jan via radio!
(Nancy) And moon bounce. I think this is a skill all should learn too.
(Jurian) Uh, isn't that like, extremely difficult?
(Jan) Very good. Btw, I have myself made contacts with a local Ham club working actively with PR, and another Ham club wanting to start experimenting with UHF broadband PR.
(Brent) Excellent, Jan!
(Jurian) I don't think that'll be possible except for a select few after the shift.. EME requires nasty equipment afaik
(Nancy) Shirley agrees with you Jurian. Sorry I mentioned it ...
(Jurian) No problem :-)
(Jan) Only problem is, they both have meetings on the same say, the first Wednesday of the month. On the 5th, I'm in Berlin :-(
(Brent) OK, Nancy, are we ready to talk about your DSL information?
(Jan) What I've seen of PR so far seems pretty straight forward. A radio, a TNC (e.g. a radio modem) and a PC, and you're up.
(Nancy) Brent, yes. Are there any questions as I put it as a link from the Agenda.
(Nancy) Basically, for $280 for the router, $100/mo, $75 installation cost, we can get our UNIX servers online.
(Jan) And I'm not talking about moon bounce. HF can be used internationally, UHF can be used if there are many post-PS sites in the same geographical area.
(Brent) I'm very excited about the DSL! Mabe we can get our own servers up and running soon!
(Nancy) There's more. 512 kb download, 256 up (more for home use that servers, but not bad).
(Jurian) About that, it states we get 10 email addresses, that's not quite true, we have our own domains, so we have as many addresses as we need!
(Nancy) Static IP means online always. We would have 6 IP addresses, so the nonprofit COULD have its own domain, etc.
(Brent) Jurian, you must be very excited about all of this!
(Nancy) Also 10 free e-mail addy's included.
(Jurian) Nancy: is it kb or kB ? big difference
(Jurian) Brent: yep :)
(Nancy) You guys could use my data line, if I can have two of those e-mail addy's :-).
(Jurian) Nancy: like I just said, we can have as many addy's as you like :D
(Brent) WOW, that would be awsome!
(Jan) Jurian, aren't these services always given as kb?
(Jurian) Yeah, usually are, misleading, heh, you think you get more than you actualyl do
(Jurian) Cause like, 256 kb = 32 kB
(Nancy) It says 512 kps
(Jurian) Not bad, but not nearly enough to do realvideo, MAYBE realaudio
(Nancy) 512 Kbps
(Jurian) Nancy: that's downstream, for servers, only the upstream is really important, in this case, 256 kbps, 32 kB/sec
(Gerard) Indeed about the upstream
(Nancy) Up is 256 Kbps my understanding.
(Jurian) Yes, but 256 kbps is 32 kB/sec
(Toni) What is the comparison with T1 line?
(Nancy) I talked on phone, and they said 512 down, 256 up, so I assume same RATE for both.
(Jan) Nancy, if we start with this, are there any upgrade possibilities if & when 256 becomes a bottleneck?
(Jurian) 256kBit / 8 bits = 32 kByte
(Nancy) I'm not sure of the DSL upgrade, but by being online, we work the kinks out, and at least START.
(Jurian) Tony: a T1 is 1.45 Mbit/sec, I think, which is 180 kByte/sec
(Brent) Yes, we are at least STARTING.....I say we go for it!
(Jurian) Yes, definately :)
(Nancy) I see dedicated online chats, perhaps, also I'm kind of hoping to use my NT server online and offer Nancy on Radio, live, via the web, weekly.
(Gerard) Yes !
(Jan) Jurian, I have never experienced 100% efficiency. 32 kB is too optimistic. Maybe 80-90% = 25-29 kB
(Nancy) I think this would overall benefit the nonprofit as often donors come to ZetaTalk, the TT, then the nonprofit, as a route.
(Roger) AND, there's no contractual obligation to continue it if T1 is decided as needed later!
(Jurian) Nancy: live radio will need a MUCH faster connection
(Toni) Is it enough for that?
(Brent) What a great idea! Nancy live via the web! :-p
(Nancy) No waiting for Sightings to offer a spot!
(Jurian) It would be enough for one upstream, if we can get a big server somewhere to re-broadcast it to the users, then it will surely do
(Toni) Is there an annual contract?
(Nancy) I think if we get the funding, we can switch over to a T1 line, etc. The switch over would be easier for having gotten online already.
(Mary) How much funding are you requesting?
(Jurian) As for the dedicated chats, if we're going to host webpages on the servers, we should really have a faster connection before running a chat server
(Jan) I think we should start with this, but if things take off as expected, an upgrade must be available.
(Nancy) Jurian, correct, the server, etc. would not know if a switch from DSL to T1 occurred? Right?
(Jan) Nancy, do you have any quote for a T1?
(Jurian) Nancy: not really, it would just mean the IP's will change
(Roger) Nancy, didn't you state, on the agenda link, that there was not contract?
(Jurian) Unless its the same company, in which case they MIGHT be able to transfer the IP's as well
(Brent) The old quote form last year for t1 was very expensive...
(Jurian) The only Chat server it should run is for the board meetings, altho I doubt a DSL line is fast enough for usefull chats!!
(Toni) Like $1000/month versus $100/month?
(Nancy) Re Contract, NO contract is necessary if we sigh up NOW, so the blurb says.
(Nancy) I asked for an end date, and they wasn't one, so the signup period is extensive, I gather.
(Jurian) I can of course set up the chat server, and link it with this once, still limited to board members only. This one has proven to be quite stable, if I may say so :)
(Toni) If there is no contract and you could switch to a T1 line within the year
(Nancy) Jurian, yes, I'll work on getting the questions ahead of time via e-mail and do a single upstream. Need a server to be the booster, then :-)
(Jurian) Nancy: exactly, single upstream would be no problem as long as its just audio, video wont happen tho :)
(Jurian) Maybe this is a stupid question, but why dont we colocate the servers once we get lots of visitors? usually MUCH cheaper than a T1 (or more) will ever be
(Nancy) Yes, the T1 and DSL would BOTH be from CenturyTel, so IP would stay the same!
(Nancy) $800+ to install a T1, $800 or so/month is the killer.
(Jan) Jurian, do you mean outsource? Or move them where?
(Nancy) Jurian, whatever you might want to do :-) re chats.
(Jan) Or mirror them?
(Nancy) We'd have to think about the BEST use of the servers, and dedicate them to THAT.
(Brent) There's a good idea Jan.
(Nancy) I think we should make this another meetings agenda item, and give it some thought.
(Jurian) Yeah, outsource, there are dedicated colocation centers, like Exodus and AboveNet in the USA that have very high security facilities
(Jurian) Very affordable, I think
(Nancy) My primary web server, PA Online, does not allow scripts, for instance. Our UNIX could run scripts.
(Nancy) We could collect data, into databases, for instance, via the UNIX servers.
(Brent) Nancy, do you and Jurian and Gerard want to confer on this, and discuss next meeting?
(Jurian) NancyL: scripts are NO problem, both PHP scripts (which I prefer, and work great with databases) and CGI if anyone feels the need to have them
(Nancy) T1 line when funding comes IN. Having servers online via DSL might bring the funding IN!
(Jan) Brent, it was not a suggestion. My area is probably not representative, but wouldn't outsourcing be an expensive alternative?
(Nancy) People tend to fund a moving project, etc., folks showing they can accomplish things.
(Jurian) Colocating is MUCH cheaper than a T1 !!
(Gerard) Just found a link about CenturyTel.
(Jurian) And you get more bandwidth
(Brent) Jan, from what Jurian said, maybe not....
(Roger) I move that we give tentative approval for DSL in case the offer nears expiration before our next meeting.
(Jan) Anyhow, I move we accept the DSL proposal and reschedule the rest of the discussion for another meeting
(Jurian) Agreed, lets do the DSL so we can at least get the servers ready for the real work :-)
(Jurian) If / when needed, we'll figure out what is cheaper, a T1 or colocation
(Roger) Jan, that was mostly my motion.
(Nancy) Jurian, I found co-locating to be NOT as cheap as DSL, more like $300-$400/mo and this was a couple years ago.
(Roger) Brent, Jan's motion and my own would perhaps by motion and second?
(Jurian) Nancy: not as cheap as DSL, no, but cheaper than T1
(Nancy) And they charge by the bandwidth too. However, things might have changed.
(Jan) Roger, two minds, one thought. You beat me with 2 nanoseconds
(Jan) I second Rogers motion
(Brent) Hehehehe... do we need to vote on this?
(Jurian) Officially, yes, I think so :P
(Roger) We all seem in agreement, but a vote would be good.
(Brent) OK, all in favor of impleminting DSL, vote yes, opposed no
(Nancy) Shirley yes, Nancy abstains.
(Brent) The motion overwhelmingly passes!
(Jurian) Heh, what a surprise
(Mary) Go for it Nancy!!
(Brent) This is great!
(Jurian) Nancy: please contact me when you have the hardware set up and know the IP adddresses, so we can get the servers ready to go online! :)
(Brent) Nancy can just repot on progress next meeting....
(Nancy) So the issue of IP addys and how to use them. I want to set one up for my son's company, and am asking for this favor in return for other work done for the nonprofit.
(Nancy) I don't think we'd be using all 6 domain names right off, anyway.
(Jurian) Regarding that, a domain isn't an IP!
(Nancy) Later, if we want to use the 6, I can pay for having this additional domain name for Slide Lock Inc.
(Jurian) One machine requires one IP
(Jurian) One IP can hosts LOADS of sites
(Jurian) So no problem to have additional domains on the servers, we just need 2 IP's
(Brent) Sounds far to me Nancy...
(Nancy) This is right, domain is $50/year to be in the DNS, IP allows this, right? I must have an IP addy to be in the DNS, right?
(Jurian) Or 3 if we include the NT server
(Jurian) Nancy: yes. altho $50 a year is too expensive
(Jurian) I can get domains for 12euro's excl VAT!
(Nancy) Jurian, oh! But my domain required a dedicated TCP/IP from my host, right?
(Jurian) Which is about 15 dollars I think
(Jurian) Nancy: a domain points to an IP, but one IP can host a whole lot of domains, due to the way HTTP works
(Nancy) Ok, then 2 UNIX, 1 NT, my PC = 4 IP's being used here :-).
(Jurian) Exactly :-)
(Nancy) If Brent comes again and gets past Mad Max (my Germans Shepherd) he can also plug in his laptop.
(Jurian) Hmm, regarding the NT server, you'll want to take up kiko's offer to secure that for you :)
(Jurian) Do NOT pull that online before he's had a go at it
(Brent) There you go! But, Mad Max will never let me through.... :-)
(Jan) Jurian, maybe we should take this offline, but multiple domains would require different IPs, different ports or different paths.
(Jurian) Jan: no, multiple domains require just 1 IP
(Nancy) Jurian, right! Thanks for reminding me.
(Jurian) Trust me, I run 80 domains on 1 IP at work
(Brent) We'll just have to fool Max the next time I come up!
(Nancy) Brent, actually, he's a honey except when someone wants to come into the house.
(Jurian) All a matter of a grown up webserver, not IIS toys :D
(Brent) Yes, I remember! :-) But you are right, he is a good dog!
(Gerard) IIS is not that safe and so right??
(Jurian) Apache is the webserver the UNIX machines will use, also the most used webserver worldwide
(Jurian) IIS is evil, code red ring a bell? IIS requires 10 patches weekly to stay 'secure'
(Jan) Jurian, please send me an email explaining how you can do this. Or are funneling from the first server?
(Jurian) Jan: virtual hosts
(Jurian) Jan: privmsg
(Nancy) Brent, we'll drug Max the next time you come :-)
(Brent) Nancy, great idea! :-D Poor dog... he does take excellent care of you though!
(Jurian) Jan? Read my message? :)
(Roger) Brent, I need to get going. Can I give my report now?
(Brent) OK, moving on to the last bit... Roger, will you give us a brief progress report on your land/seed garden?
(Roger) The T-posts have been purchased as well as the heavy duty corner posts. There was a sale at Orscheln's so I also bought a gate (not included in original request). The post driver and wire strechter were purchased as well as the Roundup. There still remains about $108 out of the initial dispersment of funds.
(Brent) Hehehe... there you go Roger!
(Jan) If you sent an email, it isn't through yet. Let Roger continue and let's take this later
(Jurian) Jan: I meant message here, on IRC, you should have a window with a private message from me
(Roger) Some mowing has been done and then we had some difficulty with the horse.
(Roger) The horse has claimed sole ownership of the field and I fear that until we can get the fence up, he will continue to be quite a pest.
(Brent) How long for the fence?
(Roger) Of course, putting up the fence is almost impossible with a horse pushing you around!
(Brent) Who owns the horse? they should help control it....
(Roger) I'm hoping that the auger can be rented next weekend and then we will tie the horse up while we get the fence put up.
(Shaul) Send Mad Max over and sick him on the horse
(Brent) Hehehehehe....good one Sol!
(Brent) That dog could do it too.....
(Roger) We removed some old rotted posts from the old corral area and think we might have a farmer nearby that can plow up the area a bit before the weed killing commences.
(Roger) I wish we'd had the dog! That horse charged my daughter and if I hadn't grabbed her shirt and jerked her out of the way...
(Shaul) This job is not without its dangers, it appears.
(Brent) Sounds like a nasty horse! Glad your daughter is OK!
(Roger) Then the horse got pushy with me. I pushed him back and we sort of stood there looking at each other a bit. Then the owner finally showed up with a bucket of feed and then we got the halter on him!
(Toni) Well, the horse could be transportation or used for plowing someday :-)
(Brent) Or glue and food......
(Roger) I think he's a bit lonely and needs to be worked with more than they have been. I've been around horses before and even experienced this sort of pushing and shoving, but that charge he pulled on my daughter worries me.
(Brent) Well, Roger - the sooner the fence goes up the better, sounds like!
(Roger) Hehe, they were talking about glue factories that evening!
(Shaul) You'll have to do something about that beast, that's for sure.
(Brent) Sounds like you are making good progress, Roger.
(Roger) He is controllable, with a halter. We'll get the fence up and then he won't be such a bother.
(Roger) End of report?
(Brent) Questions or comments?
(Roger) Not much else to report.
(Nancy) I'm very grateful that you're putting the tiller to use. God speed on all of this!
(Brent) Very good! Then if I get a second, to meeting is adjourned! :-)
(Roger) Cool, I second the adjournment.
(Nancy) Our only problem here has been the rabbits. Have to cover the soybeans or they eat them to the ground!
(Nancy) And the deer take a chunk now and then out of a squash, but we've got such a harvest this year that won't notice.
(Roger) There will be problems with deer next year.
(Nancy) Lots of beet seeds too!
(Toni) How did you overwinter the beets?
(Nancy) I and Shirley are ready to adjoun, too.
(Nancy) Toni, in the root cellar :-)
(Barry) Nancy, that Parsley you sent came up like gangbusters.
(Mary) Signing off... see ya all next month!
(Nancy) Barry, good :-)
(Barry) Talk to all later
(Brent) OK folks, I have to go, as I am on long distance today where I am now. See you all on the lists, and have a great week!
(Nancy) Shirley and Nancy are saying bye bye too :-)
(Shaul) Bye Barry, bye everyone, good meeting. See ya! Bye Brent.
(Roger) Thanks, all. Was a good meeting!
(Roger) Well, I'm off then too!