09-Jun-96

Note: it is a general Troubled Times policy to change the names of IRC participants to screen names and remove personal discussions that occurred during the chat in the interests of privacy.

VIOLA: Isn't it exciting that we got 3 new members in 1 week! One seems quite active already.

NORSEMAN: Yes it is. Sounds good..

VIOLA: Young folks seem to have less to lose and more to gain than older established folks. They seem more willing to jump in and take action.

NORSEMAN: Time to grow now, I suppose.

VIOLA: I suspect that we will get lots of folks, that the increase will just keep occurring, exponentially. My feelings on the rate of increase is that it is best that we are small to start. This allows us to get to know each other and to form a strong core group.

NORSEMAN: Yes, that's the best way.

VIOLA: Later when large numbers join, we won't get confused or befuddled or distracted. It also allows us to form the core information we are offering, to set the tone. This way additions will add onto what has already been put into place. We're in essence establishing policy and direction, the core group is, and we're doing this by bumbling forward, making decisions one by one as we encounter those decision points. This way, before large numbers join, we've got our act together.

CARRIE: Back again! We're just a one phone-line family. It's like one bathroom for everyone!

SHADOW: I'll be, damn I made it with no help, don't know what I did. Hey everyone, I'm getting better at this. How is everyone

CARRIE: Glad you made it!

SHADOW: I wonder how I made it here on my own. Hope it comes back to me.

NORSEMAN: Hello Shadow, how are ya!!!

SHADOW: I joined this one and someone by the name of grandma was on there, I knew it was the wrong channel then. Norseman, I'm fine, and you?

VIOLA: I'm so impressed by the group, how bright and talented we are! This really says something, that we attract these kinds of folks.

CARRIE: Agree, Viola!

SHADOW: Yes, we are bright and talented from all the files I've been reading.

VIOLA: I was just discussing growth problems with Norseman. What do you all think our growth problems will be?

CARRIE: We're the best this planet has got to offer!

SHADOW: Yes we are. Growth problems, do you mean with plants?

NORSEMAN: Carrie: yes!!!

VIOLA: Core group small, allows us to form policy and direction, this is set before a large number of folks join. No, no, not plants, with TT, like as we get bigger.

SHADOW: Oh.

VIOLA: Will the list serve lose focus, etc.

SHADOW: Yes, this group will be growing alot bigger within a year.

VIOLA: I suspect that as we get bigger that folks will form sub-groups, chat among themselves, etc. Maybe the list serve will be for formal statements and general info, not as chatty as now.

SHADOW: That would be normal I guess Viola.

VIOLA: I'm actually glad that we're small for now, as this allows us to sort through policy stuff.

CARRIE: The chat stuff is nice - helps us to get to know each other and how we can best work together.

VIOLA: Plus the stuff we put on the web sets a tone. Look how often we've had to talk about every issue, it wasn't cut and dried. We know each other very well! And I think this is so important. When times get tight and hot, fast paced, we'll know how to take each other's statements, won't misunderstand. These are the times to form a strong core group.

SHADOW: I met someone in a store Viola and I was talking to him and he had heard of us. Says we are all over the place.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: yes, in what way?

VIOLA: Shadow! What did he mean by all over the place, web links?

SHADOW: He says that he had heard us talking about the coming times. Didn't get to question him any further though.

NORSEMAN: Viola: maybe it means that it won't take long anymore before many people will join.

SHADOW: Yes web links.

VIOLA: Boy, that's great! I suspect that the growth will be exponential, as the weather gets bad and the oceans heat up, etc.

SHADOW: Oh my boss began asking me about the coming times, and this is a man who doesn't believe anything will happen, yet over night he began asking about the signs and things.

NORSEMAN: Viola: just like those sonic booms.

VIOLA: Things the common man can't miss, even though they are getting a lot of excuses given to them like global warming. Norseman: I heard from a guy in San Diego, he was very taken by the explanation that this is water heaving because of rift separating. I saw a special on NBC, Heston on pole shifts, missing link, etc.

NORSEMAN: Yes I read it.

VIOLA: He was making the point that we do have crustal movement, pole shifting.

SHADOW: I have noticed that more and more television is showing this information.

VIOLA: So, if we project out, then there will be a part of the populace who, like us, thinks that it may happen. Another part that denies all. And yet another part that is making their plans, personally, but don't want the rest to panic so lies and denies.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: they can't hide it anymore. It's to obvious that things are happening.

SHADOW: Yes, in fact they are believing now, most of them.

VIOLA: Our core group seems to be such an intelligent, talented group! If this keeps up we'll be dynamite! (Well, we already are )

SHADOW: I figure soon, people will be asking where the safe areas are.

VIOLA: I think what may happen during growth is that there will be offshoots.

SHADOW: Yes we are

NORSEMAN: Viola: maybe.

VIOLA: Things like prototype sites, that small farms may offer to be that, in part, as experiments. Safe areas - this will always be the first question.

SHADOW: Yes

VIOLA: There are no safe areas, only safer than others areas.

CARRIE: The second question will be what natural resources will be available.

SHADOW: The only thing that I can say is follow your instincts on this.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: and the third - how to survive.

SHADOW: Yes natural resources will be of the most upmost importance.

VIOLA: Most folks can't migrate to the safest areas, they won't have the resources.

CARRIE: I think before we can do some serious survival planning, we will need to know what we will have to work with, realistically.

VIOLA: Telling them stay out of brick buildings after the rotation stops, stay away from shore, high enough, may be the best that can be done.

SHADOW: I believe once you realize that you survived the catastrophe, then you go to the place where you will set up.

CARRIE: We can hoard enough food and supplies to last a long time, but then what?

SHADOW: Plan a destination for afterwards.

VIOLA: I see seed packets and booklets on how to set up hydroponics, windmills and water wheels, etc., to be given out.

SHADOW: Have bicycles ready.

VIOLA: Its amazing what folks can do when they have to!

SHADOW: And we will have to.

VIOLA: Folks band together, fix things up with what they have!

SHADOW: I am a survivalist.

NORSEMAN: Viola: Yes, the power of the spirit is very strong.

VIOLA: One aspect of what we do is to offer a wide range of options, in my opinion.

SHADOW: Especially within us.

CARRIE: One thing this groups has in common is that we are all proven survivors!

SHADOW: Right

VIOLA: Some may be without lights and eating worms and moss! And having Vitamin C. They'll live! Others will have a group setting with wind or water power, arc lights, eating vegies and fish and weaving cloth. Others may be very high tech.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: right about that.

SHADOW: I think each of us should begin to pick out a destination not too far away from where we live and begin planning. I and my husband have been thinking at nights about this.

VIOLA: By giving options, then folks can aim for what they can achieve.

SHADOW: Right.

CARRIE: There is no safe haven near here. We will have to travel quite a ways.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: the same counts for me.

SHADOW: I'm sure I can find a few.

VIOLA: I'm so very anxious to get started on a prototype site. I want to set up hydroponics, a windmill and water wheel (both), get an arc lighting arrangements, fish tanks, and see what the problems are. One must consider also that the waters will rise from melting poles, and high places may become islands.

SHADOW: Has anyone took notice how many people have turned to alcohol and drugs? I have. I mean I took notice not turned to the stuff.

VIOLA: Well, that's only going to get worse!

SHADOW: I know.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: subconscious awareness etc., that will drive people to those things.

VIOLA: So many people are dependent, they want someone else to take care of them, or they are trapped and can't make changes in their lives. Drugs and alcohol are an escape. I suspect this will increase as the times pass, weather gets worse, governments say they can't feed folks.

CARRIE: People use illnesses the same way they use drugs and alcohol.

SHADOW: Yes, I know. The people though, they are turning fast to this stuff. What will they do just days before it all happens?

VIOLA: This is where we're going to have to be careful, not be their savior, so to speak. We have to emphasize self help!

NORSEMAN: Viola: right about that!

CARRIE: Agreed!

SHADOW: Yes.

VIOLA: If we start saying this or that place is safe, or just horde food, then they will look to US to take care of them afterwards, or just beforehand, more likely.

SHADOW: I've had alot of people come to me though, which is strange.

VIOLA: I can see the demands now. Where do I go? Who do I speak to?

CARRIE: We need to focus on how to use what they will have available!

VIOLA: We have to always say - here's what you do to take care of yourself.

PIONEER: Hoooo Wa!

CARRIE: Hi, Pioneer!

NORSEMAN: Hi Pioneer, long time no see. How are ya?

PIONEER: Hey Carrie!

SHADOW: We should not tell people we are hoarding food or medicine.

PIONEER: I'm kool

VIOLA: Pioneer!

PIONEER: heeeeeeey! (I'm the fonz)

CARRIE: The prototype sites will need to be kept secret.

PIONEER: Pioneer didn't miss the IRC chat this time.

SHADOW: Hi Pioneer.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: I agree with that.

CARRIE: Time you woke up, Sleepyhead!

VIOLA: I'm thinking on my feet here, but telling them to have a large supply of Vitamin C, Iodine salt, and beans and rice and tuna is not a bad idea.

PIONEER: That's right!

SHADOW: Yes, there will be some things we have to keep secret.

PIONEER: I woke up ten minutes ago.

SHADOW: This will be for our own good.

VIOLA: But the emphasis should be on self help later, how to grow their food, etc.

NORSEMAN: Viola: I agree.

SHADOW: Yes.

VIOLA: Pioneer, we were talking about how to deal with last minute, panicked, dependent people who want to be taken care of. Any ideas?

SHADOW: As well as the areas that we plan to go to. Don't know who or what might show up.

CARRIE: That's why it is so important to identify scenarios, so people could start thinking about how they will survive in them.

PIONEER: Pioneer had a bad experience with hydroponics - looking for some help.

CARRIE: Pioneer: have you eaten any worms yet?

VIOLA: I think the thing to do about last minute folks is to have the very minimum as a self- help packet. Seeds, Vitamin C, etc., instructions.

PIONEER: I'm going to eat a worm after I have a snickers.

SHADOW: You know, worms sound nasty, but when shove comes to push, they will look good in order to stay alive.

PIONEER: Then I'm going to have another snickers.

VIOLA: Something that would cost $100, at cost, and that would be provided at a site local to them, maybe.

VIOLA: You have to purge them of their dirt, first! That's too funny!!!

PIONEER: I heard there's a gas station giving away free snickers and worms. But seriously. I'm going to eat it live. Give it a good rinse.

VIOLA: Make the worm fast for a day, then stomp on it quick to kill it, then salt and pepper.

PIONEER: I tried to grow some flowers hydroponically.

CARRIE: A squished skinny worm for dinner?

PIONEER: Then swallow.

VIOLA: Important point on worm-eating technique. Have lots of snickers handy. Remember to horde them.

PIONEER: :) Packed with dirt, worms really satisfy.

CARRIE: Prefer those gummy bear type worms - those are delicious!

SHADOW: Yes.

VIOLA: My husband thinks when I have a prototype site up, that I can make a video of it, as the Internet is going in this direction - film clip shorts.

PIONEER: Pioneer is hungry.

SHADOW: Yes.

CARRIE: Pioneer: go eat some worms.

NORSEMAN: Viola: good idea.

CARRIE: Great idea!

PIONEER: I'm going eat a worm after my blind date, if they go well - no worm.

VIOLA: You know, rove around the site, talking and filming, and put up shorts on this or that technique for folks to select on the Internet.

PIONEER: If they go bad -- worm time. Who's the hydroponics expert here?

VIOLA: What is this! Double punishment? It should be if it goes well, then you eat a worm.

PIONEER: I tried but I messed up.

VIOLA: As then you're braced by the (sex?) Feeling mellow, etc., up for it.

CARRIE: On the date or the worm?

PIONEER: On the date! :) Drives the ladies wild.

SHADOW: I really wonder just how many people know about us right now.

VIOLA: Ooooh, I wouldn't know, but if you say so. Snakes are sexy, I know that. Symbolic or some such.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: Maybe a lot of people do - subconscious

VIOLA: Hydro? I know some about it.

PIONEER: If the date is really bad, I have my bro's beeper -- I say I got to go sell some crack. But who here knows a lot about, Viola you do?

SHADOW: Norseman, yeah.

CARRIE: Snakes are nothing but very long worms. Wonder what a snake would taste like?

PIONEER: Wrong!

VIOLA: I suppose I know more than others because my father-in-law had a business and now retired grows in his home. Works great!

PIONEER: Snake - reptile.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: snakemeat, could be tasteful?

PIONEER: Worm - Annelida. Invertebrate.

SHADOW: I heard snake meat is very tasty if you can forget what your eating.

CARRIE: Both are still long, wiggly!

PIONEER: Carrie, I was being a dork.

VIOLA: He has masses of tomatoes and lettuce and such, gives away to the neighbors, and all in just a tiny corner of the sunroom.

PIONEER: But I'd have a snake over a worm any day.

CARRIE: Actually, one can make jerky out of rattlesnake meat. Doesn't taste bad from what I hear.

PIONEER: Carrie - true

VIOLA: Worm is not tasty, I think that's the problem, but here's where good cooks come in. What about herbs and sauces, etc.

PIONEER: The meat is good

SHADOW: As long as someone else kills the snake, snake cooties you know. hahaha

CARRIE: If there are ingredients available to make worms tasty.

SHADOW: That's just what I was thinking.

PIONEER: Shadow, snake cooties? Oh my God! Forget it, I give up! I thought the whole PS was bad, now snake cooties!

VIOLA: I'll bet if we posted technique for prepping them and a recipe, we'd hear from folks that they've tried it, etc.

NORSEMAN: Viola: people eat everything when they are really hungry.

SHADOW: Oh yeah, snake cooties. That's where your skin turns all lumpy - snake cooties. hahahah

VIOLA: Point is, earthworms are 82% protein, have Omega 3 oil and I bet Vitamin D and maybe A too, like fish. And they don't need any sunlight, just garbage!

NORSEMAN: What are cooties???

PIONEER: Viola, is there anything on TT about hydroponics? Like a step-by-step thing? AIDS = mega cooties.

CARRIE: Snake cooties? How cute! I'm going to tell my next pediatric patient that the only thing wrong with him or her is that he/she has got snake cooties! Telling them that they have River Crud is getting old.

SHADOW: Don't know but heard about them. No, just kidding. I give that excuse so I don't have to get near a snake. Hate snakes.

VIOLA: Yes! New, off the Food page, about 6 graphics, just up on the web ../zetatalk/tfood01.htm

PIONEER: My lawyer has snake cooties.

NORSEMAN: Shadow: So eat them :)

VIOLA: That's the main page, take the Your Own hot word for the new page.

PIONEER: Viola, you talking to me? :)

VIOLA: My father in law's contribution.

SHADOW: Carrie, yes, snake cooties. I tell everyone that. If your skin is peeling, I say you got snake cooties.

VIOLA: Well, his and a folder of articles he gave me, mostly from 60's and 70's, but things haven't changed much. The principle is the same

PIONEER: I'll check it out, try again with hydro. I f'd up - got a lot of water mold. No drainage.

CARRIE: I like that - it describes most of my patients! That is definitely what they have! I'll tell them right away. The cure is a worm diet.

VIOLA: I set it up recommending that folks make wooden trenches and line with water proof vinyl. After the shift they can go to concrete trenches, which are the best long term. I even included a pail watering technique, diagram, for folks without electricity or a pump. My father in law had a business, and I have the construction specs. Plus some articles had diagrams and instructions.

PIONEER: I'll check out the page about hydro later.

CARRIE: We have property where we're at now, but the PS will change all that.

VIOLA: I think property rights will go down the drain fast after the PS, maybe even before hand if gangs get going. Rich folks will be the first to have their enclaves invaded. Law and order out the window.

NORSEMAN: Viola: Yes.

VIOLA: Those who have set up a site well ahead of time, have everything running, remote place, will be the best off. But I think between now and then there will be many options opening up! Think of all the small farms owned by maybe retired folks. They need help, others join. They have the site and others have the expertise. Thousands of such small groups will form at the last minute, the last few months, my guess.

CARRIE: But, most people won't have their site picked out, much less survival gear. Thus, our job (as I see it), is to teach them how to survive.

VIOLA: Teach, yes, have a complete solution set, basic, complete, and high tech maybe, those kind of sets.

CARRIE: I think that there is a good possibility that we will be "airlifted" from the turmoil (if my dream serves me correctly) and put back once the worse damage has been done. No telling where we will end up!

NORSEMAN: Viola: Maybe groups of 5-10 people?

VIOLA: I think you end up where you were! Just dropped back into the tidal recession flow or whatever, clinging to a log. One doesn't get out of anything, just the initial jolt. Bottom line, we can't expect any help, and must plan to help ourselves.

CARRIE: Maybe we can learn something from nature. Upset an ant hill and see what happens. The ants survive.

VIOLA: Talk about drugs and alcohol, think of the folks who will just cling to a concept of being saved! Folks won't prepare - saying they will be included in the rapture or whatever, saying the government will rescue them.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: because they all work together, that's why they survive.

CARRIE: Agree Viola. Don't plan on a rescue mission! Just to survive the initial shock.

VIOLA: Yup, and I plan on being where I want to be, as I know that any lift will place me right back there!

CARRIE: The dependent ones will not survive - obviously.

VIOLA: Unless they have someone who wants to take care of them. Many do! Don't you have folks you're planning on taking care of? I do, and I suspect all Service-to-Other folks have lots. If they are just alone, then there're in trouble. But they will try to cling to the nearest strong person, latch on. Just park themselves someplace and refuse to be moved. As today, but a thousand times worse.

NORSEMAN: Viola: but what if they cling to a person who is Service-to-Self? Then they are in trouble.

CARRIE: Of course I do. I'm referring to those who are dependent on the government and other social structures for survival.

VIOLA: Today, they have welfare or some relative takes them in. When the government starts to fail (as it's beginning to do now), and family says "no", then they will be street people.

CARRIE: As we are seeing in great numbers today.

VIOLA: I see street people now, they just get malnourished and get diarrhea and die young! They eat garbage, too. But without garbage to eat, or soup kitchens, they will die in droves.

CARRIE: People who are able to save themselves will need to do so. My main concern are the children - helping them survive

VIOLA: Its a tough call! Emphasize self-help and don't give help they don't need, but what to do when a thousand people show up at a site, at the last minute? Turn them away?

NORSEMAN: Yes, children, an important issue. How to tell them about the coming Pole Shift?

VIOLA: Take the kids away from the parents, feed them and make the adults starve? There are going to be some tough calls to be made! The welfare arguments are a precursor to those times, I suspect.

CARRIE: Put them to work - assign them tasks. Look at what Stephen Gaskin did with The Farm in Tennessee.

VIOLA: Hey! Do you have that article? We need, I suspect, and model for what to do with these folks. If one has the basic survival kit, earthworms and moss and vitamin C, then one can support thousands. They won't like the lifestyle, but then they can leave! Maybe that's the answer.

CARRIE: The Farm has a wonderful web site - complete with history. Will e-mail you it later.

VIOLA: Tents for shelter after the shift, and an outhouse affair, a trench. This will be basic survival for those who don't prepare.

NORSEMAN: Carrie: I think I saw their site once or twice.

VIOLA: But I think that those who plan should have their sites elsewhere, secret, and have this other "charity site" separate. Otherwise none in the group will ever move above the subsistence level, as dependent people aren't good planners either.

CARRIE: Don't think that would work - others will find out about one's secret site

VIOLA: They say, lets eat the seed rather than plant, that type of thing. Thing to do is set up the earthworm, moss, and vitamin C one place where folks can find it, with instructions, and leave them on their own!