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09-Mar-97Note: it is a general Troubled Times policy to change the names of IRC participants to screen names and remove personal discussions that occurred during the chat in the interests of privacy.
VIOLA: You know, the Zetas said NASA et al was using HB as a fraud, that it was a nova in 1995, and it sure turned out the evidence points THAT way. Then they said the orbit was being manipulated to line up with stars and comets, and proof of that came out TOO.
SHADOW: Yeah
VIOLA: I mean by proof, solid stuff in JPL's own posted Orbital Elements. Now it turns out that Tholen doctored his images, not only what Dr. Rath found, but I've found stretch discrepancies. That means, that the HB and stars in the center are treated differently than the stars around the edges. Looks like the center part is an entirely different image!
PIONEER: I saw the comet. There is a comet, whether it be Hale Bopp beats me.
SHADOW: Okay. We know the pictures were doctored. That’s for sure. Now, is this thing breaking up Viola. Like an exploding star.
VIOLA: There is no doubt that there's a comet, its just not what we were looking at in 1995, and it may not be HUGE, etc. May go away. Shadow, I've seen hints that fragmentation will be the story line, yeah. Postings with headings saying HB breaking up, etc.
SHADOW: I heard, (mind you, I heard) that this thing is growing. I truly believe that it is breaking up. We may not get to see it, but I think it will.
VIOLA: It has a small tail, but seems over the past week has gotten brighter, yes. There was a comet last June-July that the orbit lined up with too, for awhile.
SHADOW: Yes, that’s what I heard.
NORSEMAN: I think that you could be right!
VIOLA: Shadow, why do you say that, breaking up, what have you heard, etc.
SHADOW: What I want to do is when it passes here, I'm going out to see it. I just heard that it was breaking up inside. It may look like a comet at this point, but the breaking up may be obvious later.
VIOLA: I've been puzzling over the fact that at FIRST, in 1995, it looked like it would fragments to pieces, that would be the story line. It was supposedly breaking off chunks, etc.
SHADOW: Yeah
VIOLA: So I think that was Plan A and they didn't use it to thwart the Zetas.
NORSEMAN: I didn't read about Hale Bopp a lot, but I read one of the first postings that Hale Bopp was heading for earth.
SHADOW: Do you think Viola that when I heard of asteroids hitting the sun that it could have been coming from this?
VIOLA: Then they were trying to line the orbit up to match Gamma Andromedae, from fall '95 to summer '96, make those orbit changes. But the Zetas called them on that, so they reversed the trend.
SHADOW: I truly believe we are being tricked by the ones in government.
NORSEMAN: So what will happen next after this comet?
SHADOW: I believe it is an exploding star or what have you but at this point we only see what seems to be a comet. This, in their opinion would truly start fights like what is happening now, between people in the know and the ones who think they know.
VIOLA: I don't think it will be as big as Halley or the comet last year, Hyakutake. I think there will be an excuse line put out, probably fragmentation, but that's just my hunch right now.
PIONEER: Hey girls, I have a background as an amateur astronomer...what I saw was no nova.
SHADOW: I thought I heard already about fragmentation long before we could see it.
VIOLA: Mark, it was a nova in 1995, not now.
PIONEER: Oh
SHADOW: Mark, true, right now it doesn't, but later it might.
VIOLA: The fraud, the conspiracy, was to get folks to LOOK AWAY from Orion.
VIOLA: They did this by pointing to a nova in 1995, then making up an orbit that would lead to what we're seeing now, a real comet.
SHADOW: Yeah, I believe that, because all the talk was about HB.
VIOLA: The Hubble and NEAT allow NASA a clear view, above the clouds, and they see dozens of comets that folks don't know about.
SHADOW: So, you think it may be a real comet right now?
VIOLA: They used two of them, lined the orbit up with them, from the nova to .. connect the dots.
SHADOW: Oh
VIOLA: This is why the orbit has so many error in it. Folks are talking A LOT about that.
SHADOW: I see what you are saying. So there were actually two in the sky, right? The fake or the exploding star and a comet.
VIOLA: Shadow, for sure, but not living up to what it was billed, the comet of the century, the millennium, etc. HUGE, 250 times as big as Halley, etc.
SHADOW: Yeah
VIOLA: Three, Shadow.
SHADOW: I know there are a lot of them out there like you say that many never know about.
VIOLA: There was another comet they lined the orbit up with in June-July. Maybe more.
SHADOW: Really. Wait, yeah, I heard about the June-July one somewhere.
VIOLA: Did you guys see that posting I forwarded from a guy who said he's been watching the sci.astro debate and feels there is as much validity to the arguments for the 12th a for HB?
NORSEMAN: Viola: you mean they (NASA) doesn't mention that a comet will show up, and if a comet shows up they call it Hale Bopp?
SHADOW: Yeah, I saw it.
NORSEMAN: Yes, I saw that posting.
VIOLA: Norseman, no, I mean when they plotted the orbit from the nova to where it is now, they lined it up with one or more other comets.
SHADOW: I understand that and knowing how they work, I believe it.
VIOLA: These comets pass, cross the orbit, but they encourage folks to LOOK at those times, then folks see something moving, etc.
NORSEMAN: Viola: Okay.. I understand what you mean.
SHADOW: Yeah
VIOLA: They say "I saw it move!"
SHADOW: Yeah, that’s right.
VIOLA: When ever the orbit was in front of a star cluster, newspaper articles come out and the amateur are encouraged to LOOK.
SHADOW: But exactly what you saw is a whole different ball game, right?
VIOLA: When it went over black space, no encouragement and the amateurs said "I can't find it".
VIOLA: That's a fact, I webbed that for last May-June.
SHADOW: Yeah
NORSEMAN: Viola: Yes I remembered that, some postings from sci.astro.amateur.
VIOLA: Right, Shadow. As Atom says, we're seeing different objects, all called HB, so they can KEEP FOLKS LOOKING AWAY from Orion.
SHADOW: Okay, so what is up in the sky right now is not HB right. Not the one they first saw. Got it
VIOLA: Maybe I should call them HB1, HB2, etc. :-)
SHADOW: Why doesn't this surprise me.
VIOLA: The term I really liked was Hale-Blip :-)
SHADOW: Really. At least then we would know which one everyone is talking about.
NORSEMAN: Hale Blip? :)
VIOLA: I want to talk about how would the government tell the populace about the
coming pole shift. Now, we always say, they're in a coverup about Planet X, etc., and are a
bunch of bastards. And of course, THEY know, so will make arrangements for themselves, but
don't let US know.
SHADOW: Yes
VIOLA: But lets pretend we're the government right now. What would we say, and then let's think about what the reactions would be. OK?
SHADOW: Okay I would say lets cover it up because of the big one coming. If we can cover-up the small one, then we know we will succeed with the big one.
NORSEMAN: I think that the government could say that it will happen in a hundred years or later.
SHADOW: Have so many people fighting about HB that when the big one comes, no one will believe.
VIOLA: Shadow, cover-ups are in process NOW, saying Global Warming, HAARP, etc. But what if they wanted to tell the truth?
SHADOW: Yes, I know that. If they wanted to tell the truth, I still don't think many would believe.
NORSEMAN: Viola: I think that will be a problem for them, to tell the truth..
SHADOW: Because of all the cover-ups.
VIOLA: Let's say Clinton makes an announcement, says a planet/comet will come close, and there's evidence that it causes huge tidal waves, monstrous earthquakes, and moves the crust of the earth around. What would happen?
NORSEMAN: Panic.
SHADOW: People would normally panic. Can't have that, which I understand.
VIOLA: How would the panic proceed? I can see for one Stock Market and financial collapse - another depression.
SHADOW: They would have to cover it up because of panic that would arise.
NORSEMAN: Disbelief, maybe some will take their lives, some will do all kinds of crazy things.
VIOLA: Folks buying real estate on the coast lines, they would not buy, would try to sell.
SHADOW: Robbing, shootings, rapping and on and on. Economic collapse of course.
VIOLA: Why buy stocks if all will be destroyed! No one would want to, so the Stock Market would crash. Last time that happened we had a worldwide depression, 1929.
SHADOW: Yeah, that’s right. So there would have to be a major cover-up.
VIOLA: Yeah, many would say, live for today, not tomorrow.
SHADOW: Can't blame them.
VIOLA: Then I think the government would have masses outside the White House or wherever, demanding that the government DO something. Nothing they CAN do.
SHADOW: Things are already bad, but if they knew about the 12th, they would surely be 100% worse.
NORSEMAN: Shadow: Yes, agree..
SHADOW: That’s right. They would be incapable of doing anything.
VIOLA: The government could not MOVE, due to constant demands and congress listening to folks and arguing about what to do.
SHADOW: Right
VIOLA: Many would not go to work, so the shelves would soon become empty.
NORSEMAN: But not only the US government also the European governments etc.
SHADOW: No. I can understand why the cover-ups. I have given this great thought.
VIOLA: So, if you were the government, and didn't want this shit to get in the way, what would you DO?
SHADOW: I would create a major cover-up. Have to, just to protect everyone.
NORSEMAN: Viola: that's a question.
VIOLA: Pretend you're President Clinton, what would you SAY, what would you DO, just a cover-up? So, you're saying that you can think of no way to tell the public, so they can prepare. Now, here's what I think is already going on.
SHADOW: No, I would say something like it's not coming that close and we will prepare to shoot at it with missiles to set it off its course should it get too close.
NORSEMAN: I think that I will tell the truth, but in a way that people will know that there is a way to survive.
VIOLA: Many have said the movies Asteroid, and that one about the volcanoes, are to prepare the populace. Get them to think about it, that such things can happen.
SHADOW: I think that’s why all the movies.
VIOLA: Shadow, good idea! And maybe they're doing that already with the Star Wars thing, and sending stuff up into space. Trying to get a reassurance going.
SHADOW: I have heard that the government picks certain movie studios or writers to write about such subjects so that no one can say that they haven't been warned sort of.
VIOLA: Then there can be the "just in case" side, where folks think about what if it FAILS and doesn't get shot down, etc. Norseman, how would you say that, like we do in TT?
SHADOW: Then, being president, you have to convince them that it will work, whether it does or not.
NORSEMAN: Viola: what do you mean?
VIOLA: I suspect that ZetaTalk is in fact a good outlet for this type of talk.
SHADOW: Yeah. It is
VIOLA: ZetaTalk is deniable, as it comes from that nutty woman from California who thinks she talks to aliens!
NORSEMAN: It sure is.
VIOLA: But when folks read it, they get gripped, they know its true.
SHADOW: Like I said before, I get at least one letter a day asking about the subject and I direct them to our files.
VIOLA: Those that are too frightened, want to deny, can easily DO so.
PIONEER: Nancy! it's not your fault, everyone from California is nutty :)!
SHADOW: That’s true Viola.
VIOLA: So I think as ZetaTalk and TT are so widely accepted, and because TT talks solution sets so well, that we may be seen as a type of solution to the government problem! I'm serious here, I think this is one way, for them.
SHADOW: There is always denial though, then common sense comes to them.
NORSEMAN: Viola: that might be.
SHADOW: Yes, that’s right.
VIOLA: Sometimes the best is not head-on, but kind of sideways.
SHADOW: Right
VIOLA: Head-on makes folks freeze with panic, but sideways they may mentally prepare and take steps. For instance, if the government says the truth, then many would deny TOTALLY, not being able to deal with it.
SHADOW: I have a lot that question me about the coming events, and you can hear the terror in their voices. They can't understand why I'm so calm about it.
NORSEMAN: Viola: agree! And TT is to make people panic.
VIOLA: If movies about disasters are seen, and they HEAR about and read ZT and TT, then maybe they take steps for their families.
SHADOW: Right Viola. But bits and pieces they can handle.
VIOLA: Maybe buy seed, stock supplies, think about a safe place to go out from the high winds, etc.
SHADOW: Yes. This way they are alerted.
VIOLA: One of the best ways to settle panic may be to tell folks that they WILL have warning, that weeks before the earth stops its rotation, there will be that red thing in the sky.
SHADOW: You have to give people bits and pieces of things at first so they don't panic.
VIOLA: Then when the Earth stops, there's warning, as it is stopped for days, almost a week.
NORSEMAN: Viola: Yes.
SHADOW: That's right
VIOLA: Then even before the earthquakes and tidal waves, there is warning as the shift itself takes almost an hour. Timing-wise, folks can get to safety, etc.
SHADOW: Right. Many warnings before the actual time comes.
VIOLA: I like to lead with solutions, you CAN survive and live OK, just need to prepare.
SHADOW: Many will wait though. They will party and such.
VIOLA: Most will wait, and MOST will deny.
SHADOW: That's right. Give them hope.
VIOLA: Can't change that. When I think about what the government might do for the populace as a whole, I boggle.
NORSEMAN: Yes giving them hope is a good thing to do.
SHADOW: I know that I have been printing up the stuff about the 12th and passing it out among friends that don't have computers. They want more, so I give them more.
VIOLA: What are they supposed to do, put up tents and feed everyone?
SHADOW: And it keeps going. No, you have to fend for yourself during these times, so prepare.
VIOLA: There won't be the food stocks, and getting masses of folks together in and of itself is a danger.
SHADOW: I know.
VIOLA: You tend to have fights and panics, folks getting trampled, etc. And there's issues like sanitation, toilets, etc.
SHADOW: I know the government will be looking for food stocks.
VIOLA: Best is the approach where individual families are encouraged to prepare, and stay in family groups, extended family things.
SHADOW: That’s why I give the info out little at a time. Let them grasp it and contend with what will be going on.
VIOLA: I suspect that if a large number of people become aware and are at least thinking about the pole shift, that when the earth starts to slow, there will be mass demonstrations.
folks in from of government buildings, etc.
NORSEMAN: Viola: but what if a whole country as the Country I live will disappear, what should the individual families do in that case?
VIOLA: But maybe the government, certain folks anyway, have already LEFT to safe locations, etc.
SHADOW: Right
NORSEMAN: Right
SHADOW: The ones in the know will have left by this time
VIOLA: Norseman, head for the mountains.
SHADOW: Or else start saving money and get to the states.
VIOLA: So the government will be doing bait and switch, bait being normal government operations, switch that this is NOT where the leaders are, etc.
NORSEMAN: Viola: and if there aren't any mountains in the neighborhood?
SHADOW: Right
VIOLA: Norseman, many will relocate between now and then, as I'm planning to do.
SHADOW: I believe you will soon be seeing government on tapes and not the real thing.
VIOLA: Can be just the weeks ahead. Say if a family says they are "taking vacation" on the last of May, and leave for the hills, etc.
NORSEMAN: Shadow: not the real thing?
SHADOW: Putting look alike in their places and the real ones will be in safety already.
VIOLA: They can still keep their job, etc., but play it safe.
SHADOW: That’s right
VIOLA: Shadow, seriously! Never thought about that! They did that on some of the moon landing shots, folks got them solid on the evidence.
SHADOW: We have computers now. How will you know for sure that they are at the White House or Pentagon. How will you really know its them. No, they are in hiding already, months before time. Watch and see.
NORSEMAN: Viola: Yes, I read about those Moon landings shots in a Dutch magazine.
SHADOW: This is too easy to do.
VIOLA: Shadow, they do that already! Seriously, they have stand-ins in case there is a mass killing of officials during an event. Look alike are a common James Bond movie type thing.
SHADOW: That’s right, so why not during this. This only makes sense to me. Save their own hides. That’s why all those mountains have places for them.
VIOLA: OK, so now we've got the government NOT saying the truth, encouraging movies like Asteroid, backing stuff like ZT that is deniable, and having a shadow government established for the shift times. What else.
SHADOW: I bet there are even underground tunnels from the Pentagon and White House to the mountains.
VIOLA: I have it in my head that in that last week, that the truth will be told.
NORSEMAN: Shadow: doesn't that goes a bit to far?
SHADOW: Right
VIOLA: Well, in the first place, the earth will stop rotating! Hard to deny :-)
SHADOW: But they will already be gone. Right
VIOLA: Shadow, the tunnels, I've heard about them, yes.
SHADOW: You have people in the group right now watching us, right?
VIOLA: Norseman, no, they've been setting those up for decades.
SHADOW: They make sure things are going at an even keel. That’s right. Lots of countries also have them.
VIOLA: Norseman, the CIA was even building a giant new building just off a freeway, where folks could SEE it, and no one knew where they got the money or that this was happening.
SHADOW: Right.
VIOLA: Shadow, we've got lots of lurkers who are agents, right, I know of some.
SHADOW: There's a lot they do in plain sight that the people don't know or care about.
NORSEMAN: Viola: Okay. I didn't know about that. But what about the countries that don't have mountains?
VIOLA: Mostly they're helpful, they don't all lurk!
SHADOW: Well, the lurkers are just watching. Making daily reports I think.
VIOLA: Most lowland countries DO have some high places. What country are you thinking about?
SHADOW: They are allowing us to give info to the people.
VIOLA: Helicopters are a solution. Unless the populace can shoot them down, they go hundreds of miles and can lift straight up.
SHADOW: Right
NORSEMAN: Viola: Countries in Europe - the Netherlands, French, Germany. Germany has some high places.
VIOLA: Viet Nam exits were via helicopters, went over the head of the panicking masses.
SHADOW: Aren't some silent too? Helicopters that is.
VIOLA: What about food stocks, what would a government do about falling food supplies?
SHADOW: They would most likely start watching people.
VIOLA: There has been talk about getting folks OFF meat eating, more to vegetables, as this makes the stocks go farther.
SHADOW: Any that they though was gathering would be in big trouble.
VIOLA: For instance, lets say that over the next 6 years, that folks are encouraged to do indoor gardening.
SHADOW: They would most likely do this with infrared. Yes
VIOLA: The big thing is low-fat, for HEALTH, but in fact this makes food stores go farther.
SHADOW: That's right.
VIOLA: Animal fat is expensive to produce, can feed many people on what a cow eats, for sure.
SHADOW: Right
VIOLA: The government could encourage fish ponds, home gardens, etc.
SHADOW: And people would not even suspect what is going on. They would just think that the government wants people healthy.
VIOLA: They can do this in many way, give money grants, education programs, have Al Gore talk about it :-)
SHADOW: Yes. In fact, isn't that what they are really doing now. All the talk on television about eating healthy and all. They are laying ground for this now.
VIOLA: Lazarus found a memo on the Internet 18 months ago, where congress and White House were talking about putting up laws against hoarding - that's a fact! The groups they were targeting were militia groups.
SHADOW: Making us think, no meat, eat vegies.
VIOLA: If they were found hoarding, this was going to be illegal.
NORSEMAN: Yes, noticed that to, about the healthy food.
SHADOW: Yeah, I knew about the hoarding.
VIOLA: They didn't pass those laws, but were talking about how to go about passing them.
SHADOW: Well, they can pass it silently, hiding it within another bill.
VIOLA: Shadow, yep, that's what I concluded too, a dual purpose thing.
SHADOW: This is what they do here to pass something that they don't want people to know about.
VIOLA: Also, shelters from high winds and fire storms. Maybe the weather will get more shelters built!
SHADOW: You make up a law that sounds good and keep the bad part hidden until it's passed. Easy.
VIOLA: Re the bill, I suspect that passing such a bill would cause more problems than it solves.
SHADOW: People though don't think about shelter until after it all happens.
VIOLA: For instance, folks would want to know WHY it was NECESSARY. It's a dead givaway that crop shortages are expected.
SHADOW: No, they would hide it within a bill.
VIOLA: They'd have to wait until the shortages happened!
SHADOW: Yeah
NORSEMAN: Viola: Agree!
VIOLA: For sure, though, the government groups and military will have food stocks set up.
SHADOW: There will be food shortages, especially now that they are going to just stop food stamps.
VIOLA: Carrie and I were talking about that, what would happen to a military group that had prepared.
VIOLA: Not what the generals would THINK, I suspect. First thing, many generals, if communications fell apart, would try to set up their own fiefdom.
ATOM: Any hints on when first shortages are expected?
SHADOW: Right
VIOLA: They'd try to RULE.
SHADOW: Well Atom, its already really happening because of all the weather.
VIOLA: Then why should the enlisted guys follow orders? With no organized government, they could try to take over themselves, etc.
SHADOW: Think about it
NORSEMAN: Atom: I think next year, or perhaps even this year.
VIOLA: Or run off, with some supplies, and setup their own little pond where they could be king.
SHADOW: Then if you have food shortages and people want to stock up, you really have a disaster.
VIOLA: So you'd have guards leaving their posts, AWOL guys telling others where the food stores were, and in general the place would not last.
ATOM: People will start to stock up. Believe me, I know.
SHADOW: It's already happening I think.
VIOLA: In fighting and erosion of loyalty.
SHADOW: Right
VIOLA: I know the government thinks they will survive, but I don't think so.
SHADOW: You will have mass hysteria
ATOM: Years back in Yugoslavia it was hard to buy things, and when something was delivered to shops it was GRABBED!
SHADOW: No, I don't think they will survive either.
VIOLA: Atom, they're happening now. But evidence is only that the US stores are depleting, not gaining.
SHADOW: No, most of the mountains will collapse on them.
VIOLA: Zetas said last 3 years, but crops will be affected this year already due to deluges and droughts.
SHADOW: And space is not safe either for them to go. Right.
VIOLA: Atom, usually when this happens a Black Market develops.
ATOM: Yes, black market. But if there's nothing to sell, there's no black market either.
VIOLA: Shadow, they will survive in larger numbers than average folks only because they were forewarned. But afterward, will be no better off.
NORSEMAN: Atom: food, vegetables etc., such kind of things?
ATOM: And on black market you overpay everything.
SHADOW: Underground stuff
VIOLA: Many will die in their damn mountain caverns, where they set up golf courses and the like. Can you imagine? Elite bastards.
SHADOW: Viola, oh yeah, some will survive, but I think very few.
ATOM: Norseman: if you only have for yourself and no more, you won't sell.
VIOLA: Barter system will set in.
SHADOW: Yeah.
NORSEMAN: Atom: I know what you mean.
ATOM: Yes, barter, and stealing.
VIOLA: Barter system is the base system. I'll give you a wash machine if you give me 10 bushels of apples, etc.
VIOLA: Shadow, they may be worse off due to not truly mentally preparing.
SHADOW: But once the word got out, you can guarantee that the military will come. Maybe not in uniforms, but disguises and will take from these groups selling black market.
ATOM: However, barter for what. Wash machine won't work, so nobody will exchange it.
VIOLA: For instance, if a family thinks the power grid will be down, and roads and bridges broken, they will truly prepare.
SHADOW: That’s right
VIOLA: A government worker who thinks that the government will survive will be mentally dependent.
NORSEMAN: Viola: agree
VIOLA: They'll be crazy will fear and concern when things DON'T go as expected.
SHADOW: That’s for sure
VIOLA: Carrie and I were talking about it, how the assumption is that people will work as before, at their posts.
VIOLA: Many will go mad, or be so preoccupied, etc., and leave to check on their families, and there the government will be - running poorly.
SHADOW: They will work at their posts for awhile until the 12th is visible, then look out.
VIOLA: I should say, not running at all!
SHADOW: True
SHADOW: Government will breakdown totally.
VIOLA: I think mass desertion of posts, even among those they expect to stay and keep the government working, will occur.
SHADOW: Those places under the mountains are cities. Yes
VIOLA: So I think even the government, in their plans, the military, etc., would want family groups to be well prepared.
NORSEMAN: Shadow: they already, at least they think prepared themselves, so it's easy for them to go away. They just wait for the right moment.
VIOLA: There is a seeding process that occurs.
NORSEMAN: Seeding process?
VIOLA: Say every 20th family has prepared, and when it happens their neighbors come around.
SHADOW: True
SHADOW: I know this will happen.
VIOLA: This family has seed, sets others up to gardening, teaches them how to distill water and all. Then in this way a small community can be functioning, due to the prep of one family!
SHADOW: That’s right.
VIOLA: Of course, it could go Mad Max, but most often would go cooperative.
SHADOW: But word gets out and thieves come and steal the seeds or try to take over.
VIOLA: Even the military, the government, would want this! Say their plans don't work out, folks steal the supplies and run off.
SHADOW: Yeah
VIOLA: Now out wanders a general, nothing to eat, and finds a group nearby who adopt him. In his mind, he'd confiscate them, make them shore him up, though I don't think that would happen quite as expected. However, I can see a government plan wanting strong family groups surviving and gardening and all, for their OWN protection and survival.
SHADOW: True
NORSEMAN: I know what you mean Viola.
ATOM: Yes, but. Currently one working man is supporting about 3 or 4 others. In the aftertime it won't work... Or you work, or you're out. No bureaucracy if you want to survive.
VIOLA: So now we've got the govt. backing disaster movies, backing deniable sources such as ZT, telling folks to start gardening, and wanting survival skills seeded out in the populace. In all of this, ZT/TT is right in line with what would serve their interests! How is it NOT?
VIOLA: Atom, different pecking orders will be established after the PS, well even just before! Titles won't rule, actual abilities will.
SHADOW: Yeah. That’s right. Abilities will be everything.
ATOM: Yes, but I doubt somebody would be able to just sit and command.
VIOLA: Let me ask this. What other vehicles besides TT are there that would work as well?
SHADOW: And ZT/TT allows you to learn all that.
VIOLA: We've mentioned these disaster movies. What else? Other groups?
NORSEMAN: Agree, each person has to use his/her ability.
SHADOW: None that I can think of Viola.
VIOLA: Remember that web site, poleshift.com, and how a couple guys thought it wonderful?
SHADOW: That’s why I say we are the biggest on the net.
VIOLA: They suggested a personal pod of some sort, gave Rubellus fits as it would not work. Expensive, couldn't get in or out, etc.
SHADOW: Yeah
VIOLA: Not a good solutions place.
SHADOW: No
NORSEMAN: Yes, you are right. We are the biggest. We know what we do, and we don't ask for money
SHADOW: I know
SHADOW: That’s right
VIOLA: New Age groups say all will be saved, etc. Scallion does that, says a Blue Star will come and save everyone.
SHADOW: We do it all on our own. Yeah, I've heard that. And people believe that too.
VIOLA: Nidle's place is talking a similar line, that all will be well, saved by the space brothers.
SHADOW: Yeah, I know
NORSEMAN: So then it's strange that some people compare ZT/TT with a new age belief or something in that direction.
SHADOW: People don't understand that all will not be saved. You have to provide for yourself.
VIOLA: Militias are into bristling with guns. Cults get into the Waco thing too, are a disaster.
SHADOW: I know. I know some that come into the bookstore. Nothing but guns and traps. Very cruel methods
VIOLA: I can't think of a thing beyond what TT is that prepares folks well. Tells them they can DO it, tells them HOW, and it doesn't cost a lot of money.
SHADOW: That's right.
VIOLA: You know, government could get the Universities to teach courses, etc., back education groups. They could do that.
SHADOW: But will they? I doubt it
NORSEMAN: I doubt that to Shadow, and will it work?
SHADOW: I took notice of a little boy scout manual the other day. Had really good stuff in it for survival.
VIOLA: The fine line to be tread is whether the courses or message will cause panic. Because they worry so about NOT being deniable, they will tend to do nothing.
SHADOW: These simple things will work.
VIOLA: Yeah! Boy scouts can be encouraged! Stuff like that.
SHADOW: Right
VIOLA: But this only goes so far, only affects a limited number of folks.
SHADOW: They are taught at an early age how to fend for themselves. True.
VIOLA: Remember what Longbow was saying, about that week he spend in the wild or whatever. Taught him a lot, but then he's already into preparation!
SHADOW: That’s right. I've done it myself.
NORSEMAN: I never did it, spending a week in the wild.
SHADOW: When I was turning a barn into a house. Had nothing. No bathroom, nothing. No electric but had an underground spring.
VIOLA: Maybe the government will try to do a duality thing - tell folks, but say they are DOING something about it, like Star Wars.
SHADOW: I think they will
VIOLA: This is dangerous, as they may cross the line and cause panic, and folks may ask for proof that they can actually shoot down a large comet (which they can't).
SHADOW: But from what I heard, Star Wars is not operational. If they even shoot at a comet, they will cause fragments to head to earth.
VIOLA: Star Wars would not work in any case, but they may think they can lie to folks. Lord knows they do that now!
SHADOW: Then we have a worse problem.
NORSEMAN: Shadow: agree, so shooting at a comet has no use.
SHADOW: Yeah, right. You cause many more fragments to hit the earth.
VIOLA: Now, if they put up a lot of nonsense in that regard, and felt folks might be reassured, then maybe they would talk about the coming danger.
SHADOW: I watched that in the movie Asteroid. True.
VIOLA: I suspect the talk about asteroids, JUST LATELY, is due to this type of thinking.
SHADOW: That’s right. I think though that they will try to shoot it down, which in your Bible would cause the wall of flames as it says.
VIOLA: Asteroid's don't happen during the pole shift, but many aspects are similar. For instance, volcanic dust, ruined cities, fire in the sky.
SHADOW: I know though that the comet itself would cause the wall of flames all by itself.
VIOLA: Mass trauma where folks have to see to themselves, too many and too much happening all at once.
SHADOW: Cause of the tail
VIOLA: Failed government attempts to fix the situation, too, was implied.
SHADOW: That’s right
NORSEMAN: Viola: Yes, many aspects are similar.
VIOLA: Firestorms are caused due to petrochems forming in air passing over hot volcanoes.
SHADOW: Yes, which will happen.
VIOLA: But the idea given to the public is that 1. government can't really stop it or makes it worse 2. take cover where you can't get hit by falling trash and fire from the sky!
SHADOW: Right
VIOLA: The movie about volcanoes, in the theaters now, says 3. volcanoes can erupt suddenly so don't live near one!
SHADOW: Right
NORSEMAN: Right.
VIOLA: I expect that as folks get nervous, more cults and groups trying to make money off the fear will develop. Selling solutions. I thought about a scam possible where folks would be told they would buy a slot at a safe place, stocked, etc. Then when the time comes, they go there, and no one or nothing there! I think the rip off could be endless, due to fear, deep fear in folks. Think how many folks are soft, not physically in shape, have NO survival skills, etc. They would think, I'll DIE, or heaven forbid live, that's worse.
ATOM: Many - ME!
VIOLA: So these folks would be very vulnerable to scams.
NORSEMAN: Yes, or people who only have theoretical knowledge, no practical knowledge.
VIOLA: Atom, what would you do if you were the government. What steps would you take, to warn folks yet not create undue panic.
ATOM: Hm, I the government? Hard to know.
VIOLA: Pretend you're them, you have the power and authority.
ATOM: Well, suppose I'm lazy. I want to stay lazy. So I need others.
VIOLA: Yeah?
ATOM: I need others to survive to work for me.
ATOM: Well, so I would warn them, but would wish that they report after the pole shift.
VIOLA: But think if you wanted to TELL folks, wanted to get the word out, yet feared panic if you just told it like it was. What would you DO?
ATOM: But probably not warn them the way they panic and not work before the pole shift.
VIOLA: So, you're saying they might issue meeting places, like after a disaster, show up HERE?
ATOM: A sort of, but in gentle terms.
VIOLA: Right, hard to think of how to warn folks but NOT warn them, as panic would be the outcome. Worse, party time, spend all the money, not go to work. Fail to pay taxes, leave the post. Shelves would be empty, no one would want to buy real estate or make payments. Banks would fail, Stock Market crash would bring companies down.
ATOM: So DIRECT WARNING is no good.
VIOLA: Production would cease, shelves empty - much worse than the depression of 1929.
ATOM: Giving hints?
NORSEMAN: This means other ways of warning.
VIOLA: Indirect is what we think they are doing NOW.
ATOM: We had an activity called "Nothing must surprise us", years back. A sort of this? Preparations for this or that. This may increase in the years.
VIOLA: Disaster movies, and the point I wanted to explore is whether ZT/TT is considered a good outlet for info in this matter. For one, its deniable. Nutty lady from Cal listens to aliens. But folks reading this, nervous about the correlation that they see around them, will read TT and think how to survive.
ATOM: And a group of blind followers behind her, seeing no comet where there is one.
VIOLA: It's actually a great combo! I can see how the government might want to encourage ZT/TT combo.
ATOM: ?
NORSEMAN: Government=MJ12 right?
VIOLA: Right, Atom, like all the talk about Asteroids might be to get folks to THINK like that. We used to have this during the Cold War, re possible atomic attacks. Folks had bomb shelters in their homes, food and water stored.
VIOLA: No, no, there IS a comet out there now, that's not denied! ZT posted on the Usenets what it said to the group. The conspiracy is that this comet and the June-July comet and the 1995 nova are NOT the same, etc.
NORSEMAN: But the comet is not THE comet.
ATOM: Yes, I know. I'll try to get some comments about a comet from local astronomers. Pros et contras
VIOLA: Right, I'm thinking of referring to HB1 HB2, etc. to clarify the issue.
NORSEMAN: Viola: good idea.
VIOLA: What I'm curious about is the orbit of this one we're seeing now. The June-July one only crossed paths. So what it the path of THIS one. They draw a line, connecting this one and the nova, but I doubt the orbits are exactly the same.
NORSEMAN: Viola: I think that sooner or later we will know about this comet.. we just have to wait.
VIOLA: I think the other shoe will drop soon.
ATOM: Another shoe for perihelion.
VIOLA: The possibilities are 1. it fragmented, 2. its heading for the Earth and we had to shoot it down, 3. it's putting on a poor show due to all its stuff outgassing down to nothing, 4. it disappeared as aliens in a companion object took it away. Perihelion. They were definitely marching it to occult Gamma Andromedae, so I think perihelion is their worry point.
NORSEMAN: Viola: perhaps some will see point 4 as what will happen to HB.
VIOLA: Then they moved the orbit BACK, to line up with this guy. I think Plan A was to have it fragment in 1995, story line. Plan B was to occult Gamma Andromedae. Plan C is this comet, and I suspect there are more Plans yet. Atom, there has to be a reason for all the talk about the companion. This was out there from day 1, via Hoagland. He said HB was "driven" of all things, not at all like Hoagland.
ATOM: I agree, Hoaglands idea was stupid, but should make sense.
VIOLA: Then Shramek pops up, and is discredited. This is the way government operations work, push/pull, yes/no, just like the Farsight Institute, believed, then discredited.
NORSEMAN: Viola: wonders what will come next. And what about that other person Ed Dames?
VIOLA: So there's a REASON the companions, driven, alien nearby idea has always been out there. They must have that as a card to play, in case they need it! 4. aliens took it way!
NORSEMAN: Ed Dames also into RV, so that ...
VIOLA: Right, Courtney gets discredited, and here comes Ed Dames. This is how they work, actually all working together!
ATOM: All together making a mess. Now you believe this, now you believe that.
VIOLA: But I'm not saying they WILL take that option, just that it seems they've gone to trouble to put it into place.
NORSEMAN: So, Ed Dames is also a government person.
PIONEER: :)
